Michael Duignan interview part 2: Go Games'proposal rejected, U20 football success, dual call and departure of outgoing officers

Trying to make clubs field their own teams for underage Go Games was a factor in Colm Cummins not being elected initially. You returned with that this year but it was one of the few things, you didn't get through as big parish amalgamations resisted. Was that one of your disappointments?

“It would be because my analogy for it was every child should start with their own club first. It is as simple as that. I know the challenges that are there. We did a huge amount of work this year with Paul Rouse (Tullamore) on demographics to show where the population is and is not there. We know clubs are under huge pressure and some don't have numbers. We were saying could we try and build a nursery first which a lot of clubs have and then go and try and put out an U7, U8 team.

“It takes a lot of work. You have to set up an underage club and this independent thing takes out that. What had happened is the independent team had become the club but that is not their function. They are not meant to function as a club and if you look at our numbers, we are way down near the bottom of the country in terms of teams and participation. We go from 41 senior clubs down to 15/16 underage clubs. That is the reality.

“My other issue is, it is not all about the success of Offaly, it is about getting young people to play the games. If you have four clubs coming together at U14 and there are 30-40 players, they could have 60 kids but there is only 15 playing and the rest are sitting on the bench. That is not what it is about. I know the counter argument is with Tullamore winning this and that but Tullamore should be winning anyway and they have proven that. One of the challenges to Tullamore was that they should have been better and they have reacted brilliantly. They have been absolutely wonderful in terms of their onfield activity. All we are doing is trying to broaden the base and also genuinely to give our kids that taste of playing. Who knows who is going to come out of that if they get that opportunity when they are 7, 8, 9, 10. If you have only ten kids on an U8 team, there is a great opportunity to coach them and have time to develop them.

“There was a big kickback this year but at the end of the day, this can be forced on clubs by not giving permissions, which we considered. We didn't go there because at the end of the day, you are trying to work together and you don't want to be on a collision course with your clubs. I would urge clubs to go and have a look.

“Daingean is an example. Daingean is a big club and even if the other three clubs (Ballycommon, Cappincur, Kilclonfert) had to stay together at underage, let Daingean go alone but that takes courage and leadership. They are the sort of things I would like to see moving forward in the next couple of years.”

All-Ireland U-20 football success came early in your time in 2021. How big of a help was that in terms of giving ye legitimacy?

“It was a big help and it was unexpected. They got on a roll. We went down to Wexford for the first match. There was only 200 allowed in, that was during Covid and we got out of jail. We were marginally the better team and we won by a point but could have lost. Westmeath the second day, Ciaran Egan cleared the ball off his line. I don't even know what he was doing there because he was wing forward.

“They started to build momentum and then when the minors were beaten (by Meath in the Leinster final), a couple of them came into the team. John Furlong, Cormac Egan, Keith O''Neill. They gave it a huge lift. The thing started to gather momentum and the Leinster final against Dublin was fantastic. The Cork game was incredible and in the final, Roscommon could have scored two goals early on and didn't but we produced brilliant football. It gave everyone a massive lift at the time. I think it showed the flair and excitement and some of the personalties that developed from the team. Cormac Egan became one of the biggest names in the country out of it.

“We were very quickly engaging with those young players in football and hurling. We set up a scholarship scheme for a couple of years. We have done away with that now as so many lads have gone on but it was kind of to encourage them to go to college and play in college. In hurling, we have 15 or 16 lads playing Fitzgibbon this year which is massive.

“We were in the middle of building all that and then this came. A massive lift. The way they did it as well, the type of football they played.”

Those players had begun to emerge over a 4-5 year period before you became chairman and under structures others put in place but would they have won if the change hadn't occurred at County Board level?

“I was asked this question a couple of weeks ago and I firmly believe it. Would they have won if we weren't there? I don't think we would have and I am being fair about that. The same with the hurling. I know Adam Screeney and them had been coming but the management teams, the nutrition, the strength and conditioning, all the other investments that were needed to drive it on were made.

“That was only settling in to be fair but that blend of minors and U20s worked. That minor team was very unlucky not to win a Leinster title against Meath. John Furlong put a ball against the post and if they had won, we mightn't have won the U-20. When John Furlong, Cormac Egan and Keith O'Neill came in, the biggest thing that struck me was their tackling. They had been coached by Cathal Daly (former Offaly and Tullamore footballer) and their tackling, whether forwards or backs, on that particular minor team was outstanding. The lads brought a different skill level and standard to it. They impacted very positively on the older players around them and they bought in to that. Declan (Kelly) and Ger Raff (Rafferty) had a great blend on management.”

There was an early issue over dual players with the U20s in 2021. Cormac Egan, Cathal Flynn and others were wanted by the U20 hurling management as well but Declan Kelly made it clear that he wouldn't facilitate dual players and Offaly almost certainly wouldn't have won an All-Ireland without that stance. He was backed by you and the County Board?

“I did back him and I suppose in hindsight, we did a very good job because we didn't close the door. We actually have no policy in the county and we still don't have. You can play both if the opportunity arises but in previous years, one had been on before the other and there was a bit of a gap but in that particular year, the fixtures were on top of each other, a Tuesday and Thursday night.

“Gary Cahill was over the U20 hurlers with Shane Hand and I would know the lads fierce well all my life. They were arguing that they could play the two. Declan didn't say they couldn't play hurling but he said if you play hurling, you can't play football so you can't play both.

“It is interesting, it is coming up again this year with U20 and I have been talking to Mark (Plunkett, U20 football manager) and Leo (O'Connor, U20 hurling manager) and I have told them we have no policy as a County Board. That had to be managed, no more than Johnny Kelly and Leo last year with the senior and U20 hurlers. Not managed but give a bit of direction at times when there was a clash.

“I agree with you, that was a big thing in that win. You couldn't play Tuesday and Thursday night and be half training. What would have happened if we weren't there is it would have dragged on, they would have played a bit of this and a bit of that. Some of the lads were very anxious to play both. I remember Cathal Flynn wanted to play both and his father (Brian) wanted him to. There were representations made but you are there to lead. It can be a lonely place. At the end of the day you make the call as you see fit and whatever is the best thing for Offaly. Thank God it worked out.”

After you were elected in 2019, there were mass withdrawals with Niall Gleeson (Kilcormac-Killoughey), Brian Flynn (Ferbane) and Mary Dunne (Ballyfore) opting out as vice chairman, assistant treasurer and PRO. Were you disappointed at that or were you glad of an opportunity to put in other people?

“We went after a certain number of positions. We were asked at the time why not more. Again it is hard to get good people and the right people for the jobs. I would have been disappointed at some of the people. Some of them, we would have talked to and we didn't want them to go but they decided to go. In hindsight, it was good because it left us to build a team. It did put a lot of pressure on. That two or three weeks after Convention was a tough spot to be in. We found out we had no money, a lot of people were gone but there was never a question of we are not going to do this. There was no hesitancy but it did leave us with a massive uphill challenge to go and fill all those positions.

“One of the things I would like to say is while Colm, myself and Dervill are in the three leading positions, the rest of our team is an outstanding team and without every single one of them all doing their job and they have sub committees working under them, it wouldn't work. They are doing it properly and they come back and report to Management. If there is anything in doubt, they will give you a call. I would be a good delegator and tell people to go and do their job but they are brilliant at coming up with things.

“Even though we are gone apart from me on Central Council, when you look down at Tom (Parlon), Brendan (Minnock), Pat (Teehan) (the new chairman, secretary and assistant secretary), we still have a very strong and experienced management team which is excellent. You asked me a question and yes I was disappointed in some of the people. I am not going back there and it is done. Also I changed a couple of positions myself. People wanted to stay in certain roles and I went and changed them because I felt there were better people for the jobs. There were hard calls made in the first few weeks as well that people weren't happy with, people that I would have known fairly well over the years. We made changes and moved things on.”

In 2020, Pat Horan (St Rynagh's, the outgoing secretary) decided not to contest with Colm Cummins, maintaining that he was not wanted by you and others but looking at it from a positive point of view, how important was it to get Colm in there?

“It was vital. He was very much leading the strategic side of the house. A quiet fellow but very smart, a very good speaker and communicator and very passionate about Offaly. I think the three of us together were very strong. We are different and we didn't agree on certain things but it was brilliant the way we could sit down and go through it and come up with a solution. We always presented a united front. He was key to the whole thing and he had to come into a very pivotal role. The secretary role is so important and there is so much happening on a daily basis. If it is handled properly, you set the tone for the whole county by that.

“If you are not doing things right there, it is very hard to do them right on the field. A huge volume of work on that whole admin side and he was the man to do it. It was tough on him, he had young kids, no more than Dervill, my kids were older so I had more freedom in terms of my personal life whereas the lads were strangled. I had my own business, Colm was working with the ESB, a huge job there, he had to make the time. It was massive what he did.”