Southport Inquiry hears of killer’s comments about the Taliban

Southport killer Axel Rudakubana questioned whether the public’s view of the Taliban was unfair in a conversation with family support workers, an inquiry into the attack has heard.

The Southport Inquiry, at Liverpool Town Hall, heard details of a home visit by support worker Louise Lewis and her supervisor Sharon Barrett from Lancashire County Council’s Child and Family Wellbeing Service on October 4 2021.

Rudakubana, now 19, murdered Elsie Dot Stancombe, seven, Bebe King, six, and Alice da Silva Aguiar, nine, in an attack on a Taylor Swift-themed dance class on July 29 last year.

On Wednesday, Ms Barrett told the inquiry he had spoken about politics when they visited the family home in Banks, Lancashire.

She said: “He was very sporadic in what he was saying but he was talking about why different governments don’t get punished for things when certain governments do, how governments work, why do certain governments affiliate with other countries, why do people have a really bad vision of the Taliban when there are other governments, like the American government, who go into countries and can hurt people.

“He was basically talking about lots of different policies and procedures around what the governments were doing within England.

“There were all sorts of things coming out but it was very, sort of, scattergun and sporadic in what he was saying.”

She said he was not being “extremist” but was asking questions.

Nicholas Moss KC, counsel to the inquiry, asked: “He was showing no criticism of the Taliban and comparing them to the situation of the US and saying it was unfair?”

Ms Barrett said: “I would say it was more questioning at that point.”

The inquiry has heard Rudakubana was referred to the Government’s anti-terror programme Prevent on three occasions, with the cases closed every time, but was not referred following this discussion.

The inquiry was shown an email Ms Barrett sent to Ms Lewis on October 12 2021 with an updated list of proscribed terror organisations with the comment: “Think we need to look at this with Axel’s parents.”

She was asked if that had arisen following the home visit, but said it was based on Rudakubana’s history.

She was also asked about an email she sent to a manager from the targeted youth service on October 14 2021 in which she said: “There are some concerns about how extreme some of Axel’s views are and the risk that this could pose so we may also need to refer to Prevent.”

Ms Barrett said she was “making sure” those who would be working with Rudakubana were aware of how “not extremist, but extreme” some of his views were and how that might be a risk factor in future work.

Mr Moss said: “Isn’t the reality that the simple position is this is information that should have been shared with the counter-terrorism police. It could have been a useful piece of the jigsaw?”

Ms Barrett said: “It could have.”

Mr Moss added: “And as the supervisor it was your duty to ensure that it happened?”

She replied: “Yeah.”

Ms Barrett also agreed during the visit to the home on October 4 2021, Rudakubana was dominating the narrative.

Notes of the visit recorded that the teenager told support workers he was making “his own money via the internet”.

Ms Barrett said she believed he had been doing internet research for family trees to make money.

But, she said his parents told her he was not unsupervised when he was using the internet.

The inquiry heard Rudakubana was referred to the Child and Family Wellbeing Service again in April 2023 by Presfield High School, who had not seen him since May 2022.

The referral noted that school staff had tried to visit him at home, but his father Alphonse Rudakubana had commented that he and Rudakubana’s mother, Laetitia Muzayire, would “pay the price” if staff were allowed in to see him.

Family support worker Ashleigh Williams said she carried out a home visit on April 11 2023, when she noted Rudakubana presented as “calm” and said there had been no violence between him and the family recently.

In her note of the meeting, she wrote: “A hole in the wall could be seen.

“When asked about this, Axel stated he threw something at the wall to get his dad’s attention with the intention of damaging the wall.”

She also noted a picture on the wall was in an “odd place” and it was possible there was another hole, but the family has attempted to hide it.

The inquiry was adjourned until Monday.